Randomly decided to check in after years and see talk of Doordie and Amel. Lots of fun memories! Arguably my first long time character, Narwyn, ended up closely aligned with Amel as his protege.
Doordie was one of the best RP's I ever played with. His stories, with his character Amel, were amazing. Rich, deep, complex. I hope Doordie is doing well! You have a really great Uncle!
Registered Member #878
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My question really applies to subraces. There are several subraces common to the Forgotten Realms and I'm wondering if such subraces of the standard 7 NWN player character races are considered MPCs or not. I know that subraces such as Drow, Fey'ri and Tieflings are easily viewed as monsters, but i'd find it hard to imagine that same view applying to Aasimars.
Anyway to make things easier, I'm going to list all the Non-planetouched subraces that are not considered monsters in the PnP game from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting.
Dwarf: Gold Dwarf, Shield Dwarf "this is the standard NWN Dwarf"
Elf: Moon Elf (Silver Elf) "this is the standard NWN Elf", Sun Elf (Gold Elf), Wild Elf (Green Elf), Wood Elf (Copper Elf)
Gnome: Rock Gnome "this is the standard NWN Gnome"
Half-Elf: Half Moon, Sun, Wild or Wood Elf "difference is only in appearance, no difference in racial abilities"
Half-Orc: Although nothing is given on this, there are 3 different species of orcs native to Faerun. Grey orcs, Mountain Orcs "the most common type, is green in colour" and Orogs. There is also the consideration of the non orc parents being something other than a human, but that is only addressed in The Quintessetial Half-Orc
Halfling: Ghostwise Halfling, Lightfoot Halfling "the standard NWN Halfling", Stongheart Halfling
Human: The only real difference in Humans is cultural so they don't actually have any subraces
Check here for basic details about these subraces.
Aasimars are not considered a threat by NPC factions (so, not MPC) but do require staff permission to play.
Subraces as listed above (Moon elf, Strongheart halfling) are playable without special permission and not MPC.
The info about the half-orc subraces isn't widely known (first I'd heard of it). These specific ones may or may not be MPCs depending on usual appearance / attitudes. 'Generic' half-orcs are not MPCs, but may well be treated with suspicion.
Registered Member #34
Joined: 11:01:04 am GMT 02/26/04
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I guess the Aasimar is the one that gives me so much trouble. I've seen some elfish-looking female PC going around with some other elves, and I don't know if that's an MPC or not.
I personally wish the categorization of MPCs was something that could be easily determined by visual means... like anything with wings, horn, tail, or any other non-standard part is an MPC. Some I know from experience, but others just leave me wondering.
Always Preceding Miggen Registered Member #136
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Niv wrote ... I guess the Aasimar is the one that gives me so much trouble. I've seen some elfish-looking female PC going around with some other elves, and I don't know if that's an MPC or not.
Why does an elvish-looking female PC in the company of other elves give you any reason to believe it's an MPC and not just an elf? As Stormkitten said, Aasimar's are by permission, and the character description would likely be updated by the Staff to indicate that, if there were no outwardly visible signs (e.g., no wings so description says ((Aasimar)). As Stormkitten also said, an Aasimar, if approved, would not be an MPC, so you can't shoot them on sight, so why do they give you so much trouble when you don't need to know from a visual cue?
Niv wrote ... I personally wish the categorization of MPCs was something that could be easily determined by visual means... Some I know from experience, but others just leave me wondering.
I can't think of any MPCs (no PvP consent required) that aren't visually identifiable... maybe you could explicitly list the ones that leave you wondering so we could provide clarification.
Registered Member #1244
Joined: 2:10:27 am GMT 01/23/08
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I think .. What we have here is a distinction between the four types of character on Thain:
1. Normal races/subraces - no DM permission needed, no KOS by guards (or players), unless shifted into a form in category 4
2. Standard classes/races that do not require DM permission to play, but -are- KOS to guards/players in their normal appearance, even without being shifted (RDD is the only example I can bring to mind here) - Obviously a shifter/RDD shifted into one of the forms covered in category 4 would also be KOS to guards/players.
3. Non-standard races/subrates that require DM permission, but are also NOT KOS to guards/Players (again, unless shifted into a form covered in category 4)
4. Non-standard races/subraces/shapes that require DM permission to play and are KOS to guards/players - Although this leads me to ask the question - What if a one of these characters who is KOS in his normal form shifts to an "accepted" form - For example, if Eshtarra polymorphed into half-orc form.
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Personal Opinion
Raphael diSanto wrote ... 4. Non-standard races/subraces/shapes that require DM permission to play and are KOS to guards/players - Although this leads me to ask the question - What if a one of these characters who is KOS in his normal form shifts to an "accepted" form - For example, if Eshtarra polymorphed into half-orc form.
(bolding mine)
I think this is a difficult question as a lot of it is situational. I know that certain of my characters would continue to attack the "acceptacle" form unless they personally knew the shifter - otherwise, who's to say it's not just another trick of the creature?
Obviously, this is where the Golden Rule rears it's inevitable head. Play your character, but remember that Fun > Strict RP.
[Edit on rereading]
In my reply above, I was meaning a character shifted to a monsterous appearance, e.g. Isa in flayer form shifting back to her normal form.
Your example of an MPC shifting to a non KOS shape, it would depend on if you'd seen the shift. If yes, I'd say KOS still applies - you know it's them. If no, then no - detection of shifted characters is outside the mechanics, unless they do something to give themselves away.
That said... the only magically available, non-KOS shape is a pixie... still likely to attract quite a few arrows from some guards!
[ Edited 04:16:17 PM 05/27/08 ]
Registered Member #34
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My bad... it was early in the morning and my brain wasn't working right yet. What I meant to say is, "elfish-looking female PC with wings".
I don't know what race or sub-race it was, or if it was an MPC.
FAQ wrote ... If you have a monstrous appearance, then PvP rules are modified..."
That seems easy enough, but the FAQ then seems to contradict itself.
FAQ wrote ... Non-MPC shifted forms include: brown bear, ..., fairie-dragon, ..., "metallic" wyrmling/dragon
The ones I included above certainly seem "monstrous" to me.
I can think of four areas on the island where you'll find bears. Of those, three are hostile, and one of those, the Grizzly Bear, IS a Brown Bear. And I bet the vast majority of us who saw a bear in the wild wouldn't know the difference... nor would we stick around to learn if it was hostile or not.
On dragons, "metallic" dragons don't strike me as any less "monstrous" than the others, and I don't think they'd be welcome in any of the towns or cities, and certainly not in and around Raven's Watch.
IMO, anything that's carnivorous ("Grandmother, what big teeth you have got!") and not a standard PC race should probably qualify as an MPC. But I'd settle for anything that made the determination easy to do IG. Currently, that's hard to do with some of the winged "by staff permission only" types and also with the "metallic" wyrmlings. (Maybe I'm color-blind or something.)
TPK Insurance Specialist, call now for our low, low rates! 1-800-U KILL ME Registered Member #552
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Nivaurum wrote ... I can think of four areas on the island where you'll find bears. Of those, three are hostile, and one of those, the Grizzly Bear, IS a Brown Bear. And I bet the vast majority of us who saw a bear in the wild wouldn't know the difference... nor would we stick around to learn if it was hostile or not.
Heh... of course, that's real life, not in game. The Grizzly IG is a different model from the brown bear. That said, there is a hostile brown bear on the island - personally I agree that it shoud be considered a KOS form, though I can see why it might be kept otherwise simply to cut shfters some slack in the more nature orientated areas where shifted RP might well take place.
Another thing I would note is the difference between PVP hostility against a shifted character, and DM/guard hostility. I know that if I as a DM saw any of those three (four including fey) forms around a civilised area, they'd almost certainly be getting a load of arrows coming their way.
Always Preceding Miggen Registered Member #136
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/Edit to respond to Niv's clarification...
Niv wrote ... What I meant to say is, "elfish-looking female PC with wings".
I'm almost positive that if you use the examine icon on those two elven female PCs (Eshtarra and Letheria) that have wings that it says "((MPC))" right in their description; both were Staff-approved. That seems pretty unambigous. Thrar is the only other PC with feathery wings and he is a half-Celestial and thus is not an MPC. You didn't mention him so I'm assuming that was already clear.
Niv wrote ...
FAQ wrote ... If you have a monstrous appearance, then PvP rules are modified..."
That seems easy enough, but the FAQ then seems to contradict itself.
FAQ wrote ... Non-MPC shifted forms include: brown bear, ..., fairie-dragon, ..., "metallic" wyrmling/dragon
The ones I included above certainly seem "monstrous" to me.
What seems monstrous to you does not indicate a self-contradiction in the FAQ. That's just your disagreement with our definitons! /End Edit
FAQ wrote ... Non-MPC shifted forms include: brown bear, ..., fairie-dragon, ..., "metallic" wyrmling/dragon
Brown bear: As Galen said, the floaty names and appearance models are your clue here that there's a difference between Brown Bears and Grizzlies. Brown bears are the ones that actually are non-hostile in the Crossroads South and may even save the life of low-level adventurers who would otherwise be overwhelmed by kobolds.
Faerie Dragon: Perhaps your 8-INT commoner isn't going to know much about faerie dragons, but the reason they're in the FAQ as non-hostile is the presumption that there's enough common lore about them as being benevolent creatures, that they are not considered a threat. Your opinion may differ, but that's the rule today.
"Metallic" wyrmling/dragon: Same logic as above... metallics are the good guys and chromatics are the bad guys and this is considered common lore. Even the child NPCs ought to know this from the bedtime stories their elders tell them. Again, an adult metallic could rip any NPC humanoid to shreds and thus certainly can be mighty fearful and "monstrous" looking, but then so could a Celestial Arch-Angel... they are inherently good, so not a threat.
Niv wrote ... Maybe I'm color-blind or something.
If you're having trouble distinguising (for example red and copper wyrmlings look very similar), then simply send a tell if it's a PC or send query on the DM channle if it's an NPC.
[ Edited 05:19:30 PM 05/27/08 ]
Registered Member #742
Joined: 4:17:12 pm GMT 04/16/06
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I'll take the opportunity to add something of my own.
You might encounter my main character, Krin, as something other than a half-elven ranger.
He might be considered an MPC in his alternate form, and I -do- invite any and all characters he encounters to react as they normally would when faced with what might be considered by most, a danger.
If it is IC for your PC to try to turn Krin's alternate form into a pin-cushion, then by all means, go ahead.
I would however state my preference, for your fun, and mine for some time to be allowed for reactions / emoting / RP in general. If after all is said and done your character would attack, I will gladly cooperate and act accordingly. PvP is one possible outcome, as is RPed confrontation - I'll go along, just ask!
I wont complain if you just go off and shoot / swing / cast, but I either wont stick around, or might even fight back (asking beforehand) if warranted and IC
[ Edited 05:11:38 PM 05/27/08 ][ Edited 05:12:57 PM 05/27/08 ]
[ The Island of Thain ]
What is, and is not a MPC???
/End Edit
