Registered Member #575
Joined: 12:37:43 am GMT 07/16/05
Posts: 284
Eh... posting this here since I am quite unsure where it would best fit. Since this is the catchall, here we go! Actually.. I wrote this at work whilst I was thinking about it and I am just posting it now for everyone to read.
Anti-Smite Note: These are my personal opinions and experiences, not any official statement. If these don't work I am sorry but they are -tips- only, and my way of trying to help out.
Okay, we all hate it, we all deny it, but it's there. Now before some riled DM smites me, let me explain what I mean. I am not talking about favoritism in terms of rewards or special attention or anything like that. I am talking about the kind that everyone has.
Everyone comes across people who they mesh well with. They just seem to get along and do well together. This is normal. Even DMs are like this. Yet, they go out of their way to try to give everyone their fair chance. For this they deserve our respect and appreciation. They are human too, and I think this is sometimes forgotten as we watch them play the role of the all-powerful DMs. So I guess this is just a reminder. Something that hs been on my mind. Keep in mind that they are trying their hardest to be fair about things.
Also, for those that wish to get a bit more DM interaction, perhaps to further a plotline or some such similar reason, here are some tips I found have helped.
Tip 1) RP - I know this sounds stupid to say on an RP server, but I am saying it always. RP often, RP consistently, RP well. And when I say RP well I mean to RP with good grammar, spelling, and sentence structure. Not perfect but to the best of your ability. To do less lessens the enjoyment for everyone. ((Then again, I am a writer so am rather sensitive to this. Ignore at your discretion. )
Tip 2) RP more than you 'Mob' - Spend more time typing at the Fire than clicking on monsters elsewhere. I, personally, have spent 6+ hours on pure RP without even really moving. And I enjoyed it much more than running around smashing monsters. Then again, if this isn't your thing, then do your best to RP on the move. Just know that RP attracts attention. ((It is an RP server afterall)) And the more profuse and extended the RP, and the higher quality it is, the more others will enjoy it and the more they will be inclined to interact with it. ((DMs included, they like a good story too, why else would they be DMs?)) Please, though, don't take this as saying that you should put quantity over Quality. Quality should always be higher in the list of priorities.
Tip 3) Post in the Forums - I have noticed an increase in a particular style of Forum post lately. One where a character will act out a scene IG and then post the scene over again in the IC forums. These scenarios usually involve an NPC that the PC would like a response of some sort from and so instead of waiting for the time when a DM might or might not be available they post the scenario. This, in my opinion, is a -very- good idea. Not only are you adding to the general atmosphere of Thain being 'alive and real' but you are removing time constraints and easing demands on our already hard-working staff. Take your character to NPC X and manage to figure out a way that they could talk. Post the conversation in the forum and who knows. Perhaps, though I do not speak for any DMs in this, you will get a response there where you could not get one IG for whatever reason. It's always worth a try.
Tip 4) Be Assertive - But don't confuse this with rude or demanding. Assertiveness is saying that you would like to join a group of adventurers headed to blah... Do they mind if you join them? Rude or demanding would be to say that you are coming with them without an invitation, and then proceeding to run ahead and try to kill everything before anyone else can. And no I am not talking about anyone in particular, that situation just came up as a possible one. None of the Players behind their Characters can read minds... They can't know if you want to join or not and it might not be on their mind to ask at that moment. Don't let these situations make you feel alienated or left out. Make sure that you speak up for yourself. IG, and actually IC, I came across a situation where being assertive would have been the perfect thing to do. A PC was rather distrusting of going around with people because they had traveled with a party and the party had spoken of splitting the treasure but the PC in question had not recieved their share. Now, that might have been for any reason from plain forgetting the person was there to IC motivations to try and earn a little extra coin at someone else's loss. ((Personally I think that should never occur, perhaps holding a little back and giving a hint or two that they may be doing so, real subtle like, but not outright holding back a share.)) If the PC had spoken up, perhaps said, 'Hey, here I am. I hope you didn't forget me. *teases*' or however else they would -politely- remind the people IC about their share, this might not have happened. Now, in this situation, the PC spoke of a past that led to acting otherwise and so on. But being cut out of a deal after helping out on a group trip is never fun, and even the most timid of characters should be able to RP perhaps a nervous reminder. But, I ramble off topic. Assertiveness.
Mmm.. Oh yes! For you timid, shy, quiet, etc. characters out there. Here is a technique that may work for you. Send a tell to someone who is going to be going with the group, or some such thing, telling them that you would 'really like to join them in this trip but your character is too timid/shy/quiet to ask... Could they please ask your character to join them?' In this way you can preserve the RP of your character and still proceed to interact with others and journey about the island in those groups that you see walking around. Now, if you send that tell, don't make it difficult by shying away. Perhaps accepting shyly, but don't have your character turn down the offer. That isn't fair to the person you have asked to help you join the group. Your character should really want to go if you are sending the tell, and should simply be waiting for the opportunity to present itself.
Umm... Did I cover everything? Yes I have diverted from what I originally wrote... but I am a writer, what can I say. These things grow out of my control. Hmm... Seems like I covered most so I will close with this:
Most of all, add to the atmosphere of the game/world, and everyones RP/fun. Keep this in mind, and you won't find yourself lacking in interaction with others, even if it isn't a DM playing along with you.
And in closing. A -huge- thank you to the DMs/Staff((That includes you Taniki for the SK Times)) for a great world to play in, one that wouldn't be here if not for their efforts, and the ones that came before. The constant work and effort you guys put into this game and all the things we as players don't necessarily see is greatly appreciated! Cheers!
*title Fixed... *
[ Edited ]
Re: point 2) You can RP while bashing stuff. It's fun.
Re: point 3) Posting journals and things that have happened, or things that don't require DM intervention is great. If you want to talk to an NPC, though, you should try in game a few times first. The DM's don't necessarily have the time to follow everything happening in the forums.
And it doesn't have to be a DM event for folks to have fun.
Registered Member #5
Joined: 6:48:49 pm GMT 02/16/04
Posts: 4184
While this post is well mannered, I think a few things don't quite have the influence suggested in the post - certainly it's not the be all
There is an FAQ entry on how to get involved in DM events here:
-Clickedy-
Also as noted on the IC board guidelines "-Don't expect DM interaction based on anything you write - but don't discount the possibility either! The board is primarily to increase the enjoyment of other players. The staff do read it but we're busy spending most of our time making fun in game "
and "- the IC forum is /not/ the place to try to affect the game world permanently. We are much more likely to let your characters affect the world based on good, consistent and overall constant rp /within/ the game. "
So to be clear - ingame RP and actions count for *far* more than forum RP, which is primarily a player-player communication.
In the end there isn't a formula that guarentees DM interaction. The comments on RP are valid, but don't forget that we also very much take into account character build/alignment etc. - players who build for RP and RP consistently *will* get more more DM interaction. RPing not only attracts attention, but PGing actively takes away attention. Powergamers are very welcome here, but it's no surprise that people who PG find they get less DM interaction.
What will not get you more attention is 'loud' or overly assertive RP. It is probably harder to RP a 'normal' character day in day out than it is to have some sort of dramatic backstory which you can ham up. While some drama is always fine, too much gets a bit annoying and can potentially infringe on others fun (edit to clarify - a dramatic character isn't going to be excluded from interaction, but they'll certainly not get any more than a less dramatic character).
Other staff members have posted at various times what they tend to look for personally. I'm a huge fan of both character building for RP and treating the world as if it's alive 24/7. I really look out for the kind of character who is talking to NPCs and interacting with the world all the time, regardless of whether any players are nearby or a DM is on. Play as if the world is alive and you may just be surpised when that guard turns around and says hello back.
(more edits )
SK is also right - you can RP while adventuring. Again I think we're more likely to interact with people who are RPing out in the world rather than at the campfire - you are after all meant to be adventurers! RP is certainly not about sitting there telling stories all the time - it's about acting your character all the time.
Also use the world to your advantage - there are tons of areas in Thain that we deliberately put in to encourage RP - many environments cry out for DM interaction and players off exploring are also going to encounter more interaction - the campfire has very little we can work off, but there are some really cool locations in Thain that if we see people RPing in we will almost always jump to them and have some fun.
[ Edited 05:22:25 PM 03/07/06 ][ Edited 05:25:50 PM 03/07/06 ]
FEAR the Moorhen of Death (tm). Registered Member #26
Joined: 4:31:20 pm GMT 02/25/04
Posts: 3209
Sorry BWA, but I do have to disagree with several of the points you raise. Only little disagreements, and I certainly agree with the sentiment, but there are a few comments I'd just like to make.
BlackWingedAngel wrote ... Tip 1) RP - I know this sounds stupid to say on an RP server, but I am saying it always. RP often, RP consistently, RP well.
Agree with all of these, but we do all have different views on what it means to RP "well", which is where I diverge from what you say below.
BWA wrote ... And when I say RP well I mean to RP with good grammar, spelling, and sentence structure.
Some of the best RPers I've met have not done these things. Also remember that some players of NWN are disabled, and are unable to type using perfect spelling and punctuation. I do think people should put effort into thinking about what they're typing, but I also think that it is unrealistic and unfair to expect everyone to be able to type perfectly. I understand where you're coming from - I am an editor and I do like good spelling, but I wouldn't want to put someone off playing because they can't type 100% perfectly.
Something you do not mention is the RP of stats, skills, feats, the selection of classes/stats, etc, for RP reasons rather than for power reasons - and this is something which Thain's staff look out for very much.
BWA wrote ... Tip 2) RP more than you 'Mob' - Spend more time typing at the Fire than clicking on monsters elsewhere. I, personally, have spent 6+ hours on pure RP without even really moving.
If that's how you prefer to RP, then that's fine, but I definitely would not encourage people to do this over RPing adventures. I personally have always detested starting events at the campfire. It is much more fun for a DM to start events elsewhere, while PCs are on adventures. When I was actively DMing at least 95% of my events started while PCs were adventuring (and RPing at the same time), not while they were sat at the campfire talking. RP and action are not mutually exclusive.
RP isn't about sitting somewhere for hours of time doing nothing but chatting. RP is about adventure, and roleplay along the way, too.
So actually, you're way, way more likely to see DM interaction from exploring and RPing adventures - i.e. going places for IC reasons, RPing with people along the way, making a real adventure out of it - rather than sitting at the crossroads and not moving for hours.
Of course, if all you're doing when you're exploring is hitting things, running from place to place and not stopping to do any RP of any sort, then DMs aren't going to be very interested in that.
BWA wrote ... These scenarios usually involve an NPC that the PC would like a response of some sort from and so instead of waiting for the time when a DM might or might not be available they post the scenario. This, in my opinion, is a -very- good idea.
Again, yes and no - most DMs would far prefer to DM a scenario IG than to play it out on the IC forums. So yes, posting on the forums, and being present on the forums is a very good idea as it integrates you into the community, and gives you a good way to communicate with the DMs and other players, but it is not in any way a replacement for IG roleplay.
BWA wrote ... Not only are you adding to the general atmosphere of Thain being 'alive and real' but you are removing time constraints and easing demands on our already hard-working staff.
As I say above, it is actually far more pleasant for DMs to RP with PCs in game rather than typing out posts on the forums. So I'd personally encourage people to try and RP things out IG as far as possible.
I think all your other points are great, but I just wanted to elaborate a little on these few.
Always Preceding Miggen Registered Member #136
Joined: 4:31:27 am GMT 06/13/04
Posts: 16130
Kal wrote ... Other staff members have posted at various times what they tend to look for personally.
I'll take this opportunity to say what I'm looking for... I suspect it's pretty similar among most DMs, but at least you know where I stand.
Quality of RP: Playing to your abilities/skills/feats and choosing new ones at level-up that fit your prior RP are important to me as well as trying to stay in-character most of the time. Occasional OOC chatter doesn't bug me as much as some, but do try to keep it to tells or party chat. So much of the OOC chatter I do see, could just as easily have been said IC--try to "be" your character and you'll find little reason for OOC chat except "//afk--brb" or "//g'night that was fun!".
Respectful Interaction: Obviously we're all here to have fun. Some like to "help" others along by offering tips. As long as they're suggestions and not demeaning of someone else's RP, that's great. Telling someone "how can you play a good guy while wearing all black" or "that sword must be evil because it glows red" are imposing your perceptions on someone else's RP. Running a conflict can be a very difficult thing--you want to be sure that you're not making an unfun situation for someone else, but you don't want to ruin the surprise of what might happen either. Players that go out of their way to ensure that others are having fun, as well as themselves, are to be applauded in my book. Remember your not on opposing teams as players--you're actors giving an impromptu play together; there are no winners and losers in a well-told story since everyone gets an Oscar (err... well every gets to have fun!).
Speed of Leveling: This is a tough one because everyone has different amounts of time to comit to the game, but the DMs have a tool to normalize that by how many hours were actually spent in-game on a specific character. It doesn't matter if you spent 8 hours a day or 1 hour a week--40 hours on a char is the same as anyone else; although if you spend a lot of time in-game, it's obviously easier to get noticed becuase there's more opportunities to be on when a DM is on. We've seen the "nominal" rate of the RPers vs the ones who are more interested in achieving L20 as quickly as possible. If you zoom up to get powerful and then suddenly slow-down when you hit cap and start RPing, you won't get as much interaction from me as if you had simply taken your time from L1 to your current level. Related to this, I tend to adjust the "RP Bonuses" I give out based on leveling rate--if you've been going more slowly than the nomianl rate, you'll get a larger award and vice-versa (so don't be surprised or upset when comparing what you got among your peers for the same event as you find differieng results for each char).
No Exploits/Farming: Sometimes you come across something and you just didn't know, but it's usually pretty evident to the staff when someone clearly was exploiting a bad setup to gain loot/xp with zero risk, or that you are repeatedly going over the same area in the same game session (strictly motivated by OOC desire for loot/xp). Exploiting is a ban-worthy offense... you only get to make that mistake once. Farming, while not against the rules, is noted by the DMs who will ignore you at best and may decide to up the challenge rating if there's no RPers to interact with, so again, best to just avoid this.
Ally Registered Member #122
Joined: 2:02:54 am GMT 05/19/04
Posts: 4750
I'm in an overall agreement with both Yas and Kal's posts above, but especially this bit:
Kal wrote ... Also use the world to your advantage - there are tons of areas in Thain that we deliberately put in to encourage RP - many environments cry out for DM interaction and players off exploring are also going to encounter more interaction - the campfire has very little we can work off, but there are some really cool locations in Thain that if we see people RPing in we will almost always jump to them and have some fun.
It's not that I don't enjoy watching the RP around the campfire, some of it can be really great. It is, however, really hard to start any DM interaction around the campfire; if I set up an encounter for the low levels I see sitting there, a few high levels are bound to show up before I can finish setting up, and then I have some very easily walked upon creatures.
Thain is huge, and there is much of it that even I haven't seen in character. Some of the best RP I've had as a player and a DM happen while out on an adventure to... anywhere. Not to mention, there are plenty of stopping points along the way to most places where you can rest and RP a bit more about what is going on, tactics, etc.
That said, when I am in as DM, I enjoy looking for RP that has either already started that I can jump in on or enhance, or a group of people headed somewhere where I can make the encounter interesting.
That's not to say that I don't start encounters or interaction at the Crossroads, far from it! So I wouldn't be discouraged by any of this to stay away from the CR - you can meet new and really interseting characters there. Just don't feel inclined to sit there if you're feeling antsy. (Though I will say I've had some good RP come from sitting and RPing for a few hours, too.)
Also, as Yas and Kal both mention, I like to see things happening in game vice the forums to pick up on it. Now, that said, I do like to see the interaction carried out on the forums about either what's happened, or making it easier to meet up with players that you don't always see in game. Sometimes, it's possible to read an IC thread about what has transpired and be motivated to start an interaction off of what you read; even DMs can't see everything in game, and this is where the IC forums are nice. But again, most DMs are more likely to interact in game than on the forums, even if it is something based off of what was written in the forums.
EDIT: Bonesly posted while I was typing.
Personally, everything that Bonesly states above is something that I look for as a DM, as well.
[ Edited 05:56:33 PM 03/07/06 ]
Registered Member #223
Joined: 3:05:42 am GMT 08/26/04
Posts: 1317
Just an additional thought, on those posts above: Not necessarily being disabled, some players on Thain, due to the wonders of the internet, speak English as a second language, and may or may not have difficulty with using it as proficiently as the more fluent English speakers/writers.
I have to admit I love seeing good spelling, punctuation and such from my fellow players. You're not likely to notice I speak English as a second language in game, although it can be noticed in my IC posts as they require a greater vocabulary.
Registered Member #345
Joined: 2:28:49 am GMT 11/25/04
Posts: 1954
Yas wrote ... ...but I also think that it is unrealistic and unfair to expect everyone to be able to type perfectly.
*breaths a huge sigh of relief!*
Phew!
I'm a horrid typer first draft through... My mind moves a lot faster than my fingers and causes me to sometimes slip the wrong word in my typing (fingers can't keep up, so they cheat... I'm convinced of it! ). I also spell *concentrates* 'the' as 'teh' 90% of the time... dunno why.
And I often don't go back to edit/rewrite thoroughly (for obsvious reasons while in-game) things I write for Thain, be it an IC post or PM or what have you. Maybe I should... but I usually reserve full-on editing for work related docs, not for anything I write for here (hope that doesn't offend anybody!).
Glad to know I'm not going to get banned for butchering the language! [ Edited 06:16:59 PM 03/07/06 ]
[ The Island of Thain ]
On Favoritism... And other rambling thoughts along that line... I think.
let me explain what I mean. I am not talking about favoritism in terms of rewards or special attention or anything like that. I am talking about the kind that everyone has.
Everyone comes across people who they mesh well with. They just seem to get along and do well together. This is normal. Even DMs are like this. Yet, they go out of their way to try to give everyone their fair chance. For this they deserve our respect and appreciation. They are human too, and I think this is sometimes forgotten as we watch them play the role of the all-powerful DMs. So I guess this is just a reminder. Something that hs been on my mind. Keep in mind that they are trying their hardest to be fair about things.
Also, for those that wish to get a bit more DM interaction, perhaps to further a plotline or some such similar reason, here are some tips I found have helped.
Tip 1) RP - I know this sounds stupid to say on an RP server, but I am saying it always. RP often, RP consistently, RP well. And when I say RP well I mean to RP with good grammar, spelling, and sentence structure. Not perfect but to the best of your ability. To do less lessens the enjoyment for everyone. ((Then again, I am a writer so am rather sensitive to this. Ignore at your discretion. 
)
Tip 2) RP more than you 'Mob' - Spend more time typing at the Fire than clicking on monsters elsewhere. I, personally, have spent 6+ hours on pure RP without even really moving. And I enjoyed it much more than running around smashing monsters. Then again, if this isn't your thing, then do your best to RP on the move. Just know that RP attracts attention. ((It is an RP server afterall)) And the more profuse and extended the RP, and the higher quality it is, the more others will enjoy it and the more they will be inclined to interact with it. ((DMs included, they like a good story too, why else would they be DMs?)) Please, though, don't take this as saying that you should put quantity over Quality. Quality should always be higher in the list of priorities.
Tip 3) Post in the Forums - I have noticed an increase in a particular style of Forum post lately. One where a character will act out a scene IG and then post the scene over again in the IC forums. These scenarios usually involve an NPC that the PC would like a response of some sort from and so instead of waiting for the time when a DM might or might not be available they post the scenario. This, in my opinion, is a -very- good idea. Not only are you adding to the general atmosphere of Thain being 'alive and real' but you are removing time constraints and easing demands on our already hard-working staff. Take your character to NPC X and manage to figure out a way that they could talk. Post the conversation in the forum and who knows. Perhaps, though I do not speak for any DMs in this, you will get a response there where you could not get one IG for whatever reason. It's always worth a try.
Tip 4) Be Assertive - But don't confuse this with rude or demanding. Assertiveness is saying that you would like to join a group of adventurers headed to blah... Do they mind if you join them? Rude or demanding would be to say that you are coming with them without an invitation, and then proceeding to run ahead and try to kill everything before anyone else can. And no I am not talking about anyone in particular, that situation just came up as a possible one. None of the Players behind their Characters can read minds... They can't know if you want to join or not and it might not be on their mind to ask at that moment. Don't let these situations make you feel alienated or left out. Make sure that you speak up for yourself. IG, and actually IC, I came across a situation where being assertive would have been the perfect thing to do. A PC was rather distrusting of going around with people because they had traveled with a party and the party had spoken of splitting the treasure but the PC in question had not recieved their share. Now, that might have been for any reason from plain forgetting the person was there to IC motivations to try and earn a little extra coin at someone else's loss. ((Personally I think that should never occur, perhaps holding a little back and giving a hint or two that they may be doing so, real subtle like, but not outright holding back a share.)) If the PC had spoken up, perhaps said, 'Hey, here I am. I hope you didn't forget me. *teases*' or however else they would -politely- remind the people IC about their share, this might not have happened. Now, in this situation, the PC spoke of a past that led to acting otherwise and so on. But being cut out of a deal after helping out on a group trip is never fun, and even the most timid of characters should be able to RP perhaps a nervous reminder. But, I ramble off topic. Assertiveness.
Mmm.. Oh yes! For you timid, shy, quiet, etc. characters out there. Here is a technique that may work for you. Send a tell to someone who is going to be going with the group, or some such thing, telling them that you would 'really like to join them in this trip but your character is too timid/shy/quiet to ask... Could they please ask your character to join them?' In this way you can preserve the RP of your character and still proceed to interact with others and journey about the island in those groups that you see walking around. Now, if you send that tell, don't make it difficult by shying away. Perhaps accepting shyly, but don't have your character turn down the offer. That isn't fair to the person you have asked to help you join the group. Your character should really want to go if you are sending the tell, and should simply be waiting for the opportunity to present itself.
Umm... Did I cover everything? Yes I have diverted from what I originally wrote... but I am a writer, what can I say. These things grow out of my control. Hmm... Seems like I covered most so I will close with this:
Most of all, add to the atmosphere of the game/world, and everyones RP/fun. Keep this in mind, and you won't find yourself lacking in interaction with others, even if it isn't a DM playing along with you.
And in closing. A -huge- thank you to the DMs/Staff((That includes you Taniki for the SK Times)) for a great world to play in, one that wouldn't be here if not for their efforts, and the ones that came before. The constant work and effort you guys put into this game and all the things we as players don't necessarily see is greatly appreciated! Cheers!
*title Fixed... 
*
(edit to clarify - a dramatic character isn't going to be excluded from interaction, but they'll certainly not get any more than a less dramatic character).
Other staff members have posted at various times what they tend to look for personally. I'm a huge fan of both character building for RP and treating the world as if it's alive 24/7. I really look out for the kind of character who is talking to NPCs and interacting with the world all the time, regardless of whether any players are nearby or a DM is on. Play as if the world is alive and you may just be surpised when that guard turns around and says hello back.
(more edits 
)
SK is also right - you can RP while adventuring. Again I think we're more likely to interact with people who are RPing out in the world rather than at the campfire - you are after all meant to be adventurers! RP is certainly not about sitting there telling stories all the time - it's about acting your character all the time.
Also use the world to your advantage - there are tons of areas in Thain that we deliberately put in to encourage RP - many environments cry out for DM interaction and players off exploring are also going to encounter more interaction - the campfire has very little we can work off, but there are some really cool locations in Thain that if we see people RPing in we will almost always jump to them and have some fun.
